After mirrodin besieged?

[Chodie]

What do you think will happen after mirrodin besieged? We all know that there are two possibilities... New Phyrexia or Mirrodin Pure. Well consider the possibilities, New Phyrexia may include more phyrexian. Mirrodin pure will... you know, the Mirran stuff.

I myself remember what happened after Zendikar and Worldwake... Both Zendikar and Worldwake shared many things like allies and landfall, then Eldrazi came. I expected more allies in eldrazi but nope, not even landfall.

This too could happen to Mirrodin Pure or New Phyrexia, could it not? Anyone agree or disagree?

[Arix]

This too could happen to Mirrodin Pure or New Phyrexia, could it not?

No. Rise of the Eldrazi was a large set, meaning it had to contain its own themes and mechanics rather than expand on those that came before it. Mirrodin Pure/New Phyrexia is a small set, so it'll be more connected to the first two sets.

As for the third set, there are a lot of good reasons for it to be Mirrodin Pure.

[Chodie]

Could you explain your reasons?

[Arix]

1. Let's face it, Phyrexian gameplay in this block is boring as hell. Infect is a pointless and horribly designed ability that's getting a lot of negative reactions, proliferate is a very insular mechanic, and sacking dudes for fun and profit isn't something that Wizards likes to do too much.

2. Wizards trademarked both New Phyrexia and Mirrodin Pure. It's hard to see them paying for and maintaining a trademark and then letting it go to waste. And it's a lot easier for the next set to be Mirrodin Pure and save New Phyrexia for a future set than the other way around.

3. "Scars was 80% Mirran and 20% Phyrexian, Besieged is 50/60, so the third set will be 80% Phyrexian and 20% Mirran!". Nope. Scars wasn't 80% Mirran - it was just 80% not Phyrexian. Given that Mirrans were the natives, a card needed a specific quality to be Phyrexian, and anything else defaulted to Mirran. There's no pattern here.

4. No matter what happens, the set will contain cards of both factions, unless Wizards is retarded - you don't spend that much time and hype building up two factions to divide your fanbase into, only to give half your audience a big fat nothing in the third set. And it's a lot easier to fit Mirran cards into a Phyrexian deck than vice versa, meaning it makes more sense for the third set to be mostly Mirran.

4.a. Mirran gameplay easily fits in to outside strategies, whereas Phyrexian gameplay is very insular. And I doubt Wizards wants to end up with another Kamigawa, where the cards only played well within their own block.

5. Infect is the type of ability that it's easy to reach critical mass with. Even now, it only needs a few more tools to take over standard. A third set full of it will really mess things up.

6. The third set being New Phyrexia means that Mirrodin has been taken completely over - no more Mirrodin. It being Mirrodin Pure doesn't mean the Phyrexians have been destroyed completely - it just means they're not on Mirrodin any more. And there's a lot of hints (if not outright confirmed) that Phyrexian oil still exists on other planes, making it possible for the Phyrexians to easily pop up elsewhere. Thus, the third set being Mirrodin Pure makes it possible for both factions to exist for future use, as opposed to New Phyrexia.

7. Mirrodin's a damn popular plane - destroying it like that would displease a huge chunk of the fanbase.

[Chodie]

I don't see how the set would turn out either way if it was Mirrodin Pure or New Phyrexia. What story would Wizards throw into it? I never read the books or comics but from the cards...

With Zendikar there was the introduction to the plane in which the land was "alive". Then there is some detail about the plane. In Worldwake there were explorers sharing information about living on Zendikar. They shared how the land was more than alive but murderous as well. Throughout the whole block they discussed an ancient race before color but i didn't really pay attention to it until eldrazi...

I don't really know where I'm going with this...

[Stallord_D]

Maybe your right? I see what your saying. Maybe an ancient race of artifact creatures or the "vanished ones" will return to repel phyrexia? that seems unlikely but still, it could happen. I will be really angry if phyrexia sets up on mirrodin though. They can take kaldheim though, everyone hates kaldheim.

[Chodie]

I don't think I was saying that...More like... There will be no action after phrexians or mirrans leave... at least zendikar had eldrazi.

[Arix]

Karn's going to snap out of his Phyrexian madness and kick some arse, that's what's going to happen.

[Chodie]

It better, I think something like that should happen... What exactly could he do?

[Arix]

He created Mirrodin and Memnarch, what couldn't he do?

Basically, as long as Mirrodin wins this block, I'd be happy. I'd be perfectly fine with there being a New Phyrexia, just don't make it this block, because this block's Phyrexia is godawful.

[Chodie]

I didn't really ask of his powers hehe but what do you think his actions will be? I think it would be cool if he used his phyrexian power to somehow aid mirrodin but thats just something off the top of my head. And it's more of a curse than a power so I don't exactly expect that.

[SovereignZechs]

Ok, look... There are alot of factors to play into this storyline. Nicol Bolas has Tezzeret who has incorporated himself into the Phyrexian Hedgemony. Tezzeret is always looking for a reason to gain power, and why not go Phyrexian. Wouldn't it be interesting if Bolas himself had to step in and help out the good guys?

Think Blood thirsty fans wanting answer the question of who would win *Nicol Bolas vs Yawgmoth*

Also this mechanic where there are different factions of Phyrexians? That's interesting. With different leaders all powerful, and all putting their stake in Phyrexia it's gonna be hard for good guys to win here. They're gonna need some help...

aka* Maybe Bolas with Sarkhan, Tezzeret.

Also there is still the question of the Mirai. Memnarch though dorment and ripped apart... wouldn't that be interesting if Karn brought him back for either Phrexia, or the good guys got him to help fight Phyrexia.

Memnarch is immensly popular. Bringing him back for either side would be monumental for the story line. Glissa was guarding it right? So who's to say the Mirai hasn't been corrupted... and who's also to say the Memnarch isn't going to make a return...


Also the infect mechanic is fun. They took Wither and evolved it. I have an extended deck with Wither/Infect, running blowfly infestation and necroskitter with current phyrexian cards like the Crusader. Plus everybody loves Skithirix.

[Void Elemental]

He created Mirrodin and Memnarch, what couldn't he do?

...when he was an old 'walker. Now that he's not a 'walker, he's the Legacy Weapon welded to a throne. Powerful yes, but immobile at least for the time being.

Also there is still the question of the Mirai. Memnarch though dorment and ripped apart... wouldn't that be interesting if Karn brought him back for either Phrexia, or the good guys got him to help fight Phyrexia.

*Mirari* the typo was driving me mad.
Again, this was Karn the 'walker. Way diff power level than even sparkless Legacy Weapon.

I actually expect Karn to snap out of throne mode, but probably flee w/Venser and friends on the neo-Weatherlight. Phyrexians claim Mirrodin and the fight continues.

Here's hoping for New Phyrexia.

[Arix]

Also the infect mechanic is fun. They took Wither and evolved it. I have an extended deck with Wither/Infect, running blowfly infestation and necroskitter with current phyrexian cards like the Crusader.

Infect is pointless in concept and boring in execution. It's the worst mechanic in the history of the game. Yes, I'm saying that. Worst mechanic in the history of the game.

Plus everybody loves Skithirix.

I hate Skithiryx with the burning passion of a thousand suns, and every time I see it or so much as hear his name I want to light an orphanage on fire.

Here's hoping for New Phyrexia.

Phyrexia is a cool villain, and I hope there is a New Phyrexia. I just dearly hope it isn't this, because this Phyrexia is utterly terrible, and Mirrodin is a cool plane.

[SovereignZechs]

Well Arix..

Sorry you don't like infect. Still to alot of people it's turning heads and quickly becoming a staple in most tournament scenes.

Infect is amazing to me and alot of people but that's just a personal opinion and I respect yours.

[Arix]

Infect isn't even making ripples in tournaments, let alone "becoming a staple". Everyone I know utterly hates the mechanic, some even as much as me. Yes, it's turning a lot of heads - but aside from you and maybe a small handful of other people I know, those heads are turning to vomit off the side of the boat because of how utterly godawful the pathetic excuse for a mechanic is.

Okay, maybe I should explain why I hate it so much and believe that it's the worst mechanic Magic has ever ever put forth.

1. It's pointless. This is the biggie. Poison should be a cool alternate win condition. But how did they use it with infect? They made it the exact same win condition we've been using for years. Whether a creature deals damage to you via life loss or poison counters, the result and the impact on the game is exactly the same. So why even bother? "You can't undo it", you might say, or "you only have to deal 10". Those are incredibly minor, superficial differences that don't change the fact that it's still the same durned thing. Infect was the most effective way of tying poison to damage. What I want to know is why they wanted to tie poison to damage when they fully acknowledge that poison's main problem is that it's just a secondary life total?

2. It's boring. All of the above shouldn't matter if the mechanic is at least fun, right? Well, actually it does matter, since if the cards were fun, it wouldn't matter whether or not they had infect (since, as I said above, infect doesn't change a durn thing about the card). But even if not, it doesn't matter, because the cards are not fun. Infect decks are the most mind-numbingly boring type of aggro deck there is. And don't try to tell me that "it's not an aggro deck, it's a combo/control deck in disguise", cause that's bull.

So that, in a nutshell, is my big problem with infect. The mechanic is pointless in concept, and the cards they gave the mechanic to are boring in execution. It's the most pathetically horrible excuse for a mechanic Magic has ever done, and it's something I hope we never see again for as long as Magic is produced.

[Aspirations]

I like infect as it pertains to creature damage. It offers a nice way around things like regenerate. It makes people think because twice about attacking, even if there creature can get through, it'll be weaker, and stay weaker afterwards. And combining it with first strike, amazing.

However, I do kind of agree, 10 poison counters to win is kind of lame.

As for Phyrexia or Mirran... I think I'd like Mirran to win the battle. I mean, if Phyrexia loses, they'll still be around to fight another day. If Mirran loses though, we'll lose a great artifact set. And I like my artifacts!

[Arix]

I like infect as it pertains to creature damage. It offers a nice way around things like regenerate. It makes people think because twice about attacking, even if there creature can get through, it'll be weaker, and stay weaker afterwards. And combining it with first strike, amazing.

True, that's cool. But we already have that ability - it's called wither. And if half an ability is pointless and the other half already exists, I can't call it a good ability.

[Aspirations]

True, that's cool. But we already have that ability - it's called wither. And if half an ability is pointless and the other half already exists, I can't call it a good ability.

Alright, yea. I never played a set with Wither in it. So I guess I have to agree that infect isn't all that great.

[SovereignZechs]

Ok for one, arguing with the Statement that Karn is at a different power level then Planeswalker. It doesn't matter, all they have to do is through the Mirari? Right? Hope I spelled it right... I they have to do is throw it into the core for it to maybe revert back into Memnarch.

Also look. Everyone complains about control decks like Arix, but Control always makes a staple deck. Poison/Infect is just a Glorified wither with hey. I hit you 10 times you lose.

Cards like Phyrexian Crusader are absolutly Awesome. I have to love him. To hate Skithirx, is blasphamy. It's a dragon. It's a zombie.... it's an Undead Dragon Zombie. It's beast with its ablities too.

Sorry when I get a 2/2 attacker for 3 mana that says pro Red and White? no Path or burns or journey to nowhere? Ummm... Sorry infect cards like that rock.

I don't know who you play with, but the infect mechanic is awesome. Alot of the creatures aren't that big, plus you have to get them to 10 poison counters before your shit starts getting killed fast. With so much board wipe? Plus with Zendikars block still in effect, it makes for a bright new mechanic improving on Wither, and The Viral slivers poison damage.

Bottom line my opinion is the Infect deck is fun. It shuts some decks down, but is easily beaten at times as well. It's balanced and perfect for new players. Plus to make an extended deck with Necroskitter and Blowfly Infestation? mmmmmhmm.. gotta love it.

Arix, you and your pals can puke off the side of the boat if you want, but I'm gonna sit back, work on my tan... and enjoy the ride!!

Infect ROCKS!! GO SKITTLES!!