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  1. #1
    Kappu1's Avatar
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    Default Building my 1st deck

    Okay I'm a new player to magic and would like to start building a deck for some Legacy/Standard play at a local shop. I was thinking of going with a Green/White Deck. I don't know alot about what cards and series can be put in what would be legal.

    Reasons for Green/White I've seen alot of cards that you can get in play like Harrow and Greenweaver Druid that would allow me to get cards into play to really drop in some of the higher mana cost creatures.

    Really just seeking pointers and suggestions for making my first deck.

  2. #2
    seba1983 Guest

    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    you might want to back away from the idear of legacy. a deck that can compeat on the legacy stage costs about 500$+ and g/w decks that search lands to bring out big creatures are not playable at all.

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    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    So it would be better to stick with standard then I take it?

  4. #4
    seba1983 Guest

    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    yes even though standard can be quite expensive at the moment too due to cards like fetchlands, lotus cobra and baneslayer angel.

    do you want to build a deck that will have a good chance to win tournaments or just a deck that is standart legal ?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    I would like to build a deck I can win with I pry won't attend any big tournaments to start I need a deck that I can use at the local shop here that is standard legal and has at least some chance of beating other people. I'm still fairly new to the game so it's more of a fun factor for me to get in and learn more before getting super competative.

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    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    Before I start getting into card selection do you mind giving my a ballpark on your budget? just because baneslayer is $40 each so I won't include her if you're trying to stay quasi cheap, conversely if money isn't an issue we can get real creative.

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    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    I wouldn't say I want to be cheap but I don't have 500-1500 cards so mostly I will have to buy all the cards. I'd say something cheap to start and then a deck to work towards. Starter Deck say 100-200? Dunno what can really be done I have seen 500-1500 decks and I don't want to be that competative yet I would rather work towards that.

  8. #8
    seba1983 Guest

    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    hmm ... g/w is not the best combination of colors at the moment but i'll try to give you some tips on what i would try.

    there are some websites that collect decklists that did well in tournaments. of the 500+ top 8 standard decks i saw only 5 were g/w. the currently most successful deck (jund - g/r/b with cascade and lots of cards that effectively play like more than one card -> card advantage) in comparrison has over 160 entries.

    i looked at the 5 deck lists and non of them looked realy solid. i guess most of them cam from small tournaments where the general quality of decks was not that high.

    that said i do have an idear for a green white deck that could be good. i have not build or tested it so it might be awful ^^.

    the general idear would be green / white tokens.

    now token decks tend to have two important parts to them:

    1. something that gives you lots of tokens

    2. something that turns small 1/1 tokens into something that will be more threatening.

    currently in standard you have access to both so it might be worth a try.

    if i understand you correctly you are building on a budget so i will not use cards that would be realy good but are probably too expensive ... e.g. baneslayer angel, lotus cobra, elspeth and day of judgment. pleas do not expect the deck to be awsome but i hope it will be fun and be also able to win some games on a lokal level.

    so here i go with some card choices:

    conqueror's pledge - 5 mana 5 tokens. with just a single effect to pump your tokens that is at least 10 power for 5 mana. on top you can kicker it lategame if the situation arrises.

    martial coup - that can be a lot of tokens and it kills all other creature. since we dont want day of judgment because of budget this cards fits in real nicely.

    ok now for some stuff to push them tokens:

    ajani goldmane - he is realy good +1/+1 and vigilance. that way your tokens can attack and proteck him at the same time to allow him to pump next turn again.

    honor of the pure - cheap, hard to remove plain good. a little expensive budged wise but i think its worth it.

    ok but there is no green yet ? well, here goes:

    sigil captain - drop him the turn befor you play the pledge and if they dont handle him right away you get 15 power for 5 mana yeah . also when you play the coup with x > 5 you will get the +1/+1 counters after all other creatures have been killed.

    overrun - pledge into overrun = leathal damage sounds good.

    ok now we need to flesh out the deck a little. first off we need speed. bird of paradise or noble hirarch would be nice but can be a little pricey. if you dont have them or dont want to spend too much you could just go with:

    lanowar elf - can give you white mana and that could hur because pledge need 3 white mana. vastly infirior to bird and hirarch but still playable in this deck.

    rampand growth - not as good as bird or hirarch but would do as a substitute

    we also do most of our important plays between turn 3-5 so we need to make sure we're still standing at the time:

    path to exile - best white removal at the moment

    oblivion ring - very flexable but most of the time you only need it for creatures anyway. could make a sidebord slot to handle planeswalker.

    journy to nowhere - ring but only for creatures. when you look at what i said about the ring it seems good if we need more than 4 removal.

    so we have all the important bits the rest is utility to fill up with:

    harms way - helps protect a sigal captain or even a lanowar or token and will often kill an opponents creature at the same time.

    brave the elements - need to get past that horde of vampires for the win ? well here we go.

    behemoth sledge - turns any token or lanowar into a threat.

    garruk - speeds up mana, produces more tokens (they dont profit from sigil capatin or honro of the pure but they are 3/3 to begin with so thats ok) and can give you an overrun effect ... nice.

    captain of the watch - 8 token produces might be a little slim. also he pumps all pther tokens at the same time

    so what about the mana base? 4 sunpetal grove would be realy nice but they are also not that cheap. the g/w borderpost can ba taken as a substitute.

    so here is a list i would give a try:

    4 x conquoror's pledge
    3 x martail coup
    3 x captain of the watch

    4 x honor of the pure
    3 x sigil captain
    2 x overrun
    2 x ajani

    4 x path to exile
    2 x journy to nowhere

    3 x lanowar elf
    4 x rampand growth

    2 x behemoth sledge

    2 x garruk

    4 x wildfield borderpost
    11 x plain
    7 x forest

    ------------------------------------------

    sideboard

    3 x great stable stag
    3 x oblivion ring
    3 x harm's way
    3 x brave the elements
    3 x quasari pride mage

    the deck can be modified a lot. for instance you could move away from the token theam a little by playing ranger of eos and scuta mob but i think this is a pretty fund and cheap deck that can win some games.

    g/w simply is not a force in current standard but deck like these suprise people because they dont know them from checking the lists on the internet. that works to your advantage because people can be a little unsure how to play against you because they dont know what to expect ^^.

    i wish you luck with this. i hope you like it and will have at least some success with it.

    if your still interested in legacy let me know and i can tell you a lot more about it. what decks can be cheaper, why so many decks are so expensive and what decks you can build in cheaper but still playable versions.

  9. #9
    Kappu1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    Thanks for the help Seba, if you have any suggestions on other decks I'm not firm on G/W just some of the stuff in there seemed good like I said still really new to this so the steps are small atm

  10. #10
    seba1983 Guest

    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    in standard at the moment the top 3 decks are:

    jund - red black green with great removal (destroy stuff) and very good creatures

    vampires - mono black vampire deck. vampire nocturnous is the star here.

    boros - red white weeny deck that is very fast and aggressive

    there are a lot of other decks you can play. when your new to magic agro decks are probably they way to go. the three main strategies you can play in magic: agro control and combo (+combinations and variations of the three)

    agro is very simple. attack until you win

    combo is not that difficult to play since usualy you just have to pice your combo together to win but since it is not very interactive its usualy not that much fun to play. also sometimes combo needs you to understand the rules realy well.

    control is perhaps the most difficult to play. you play very defensivly. to play control well you need to grasp a lot of diffrent game concepts, read your opponents well, know the most played decks by heart and evaluate the power of any given card in any given situation right. to me personaly it is the pinical of magic but that is a personal preferance.

    in standard most successful decks at the moment are agro deck with a greater or smaller focus on aggressive play.

    the problem with all three decks above is that they need a good amount of expensive cards. lets look at them one by one:

    jund - here the mana base (the lands you play) are not that bad. you "only" play 4 fetchland (verdanat catercomb in this case) but that is already about 60$. the rest is cheaper but still summes up. upto 8 of the magic 2010 dual will be another 40-60$. on top of that you play some expensive spells too. maelstrom pulse is about 15$ each, garruk is still arround 5-8$, broodmate dragon arround 5-6$. also the commons and uncommons you play tend to have a small price tag: bloodbraid elf, lighting bolt, terminate etc. so all in all jund will still cost you arround 200$+

    vampires - this deck could be realy cheap. its mono black so usualy you would not need lots of expensive lands. thanks to the vampire nocturnous (arround 12$ a pice itselfe) the deck is a lot (seriously a lot) better with 8 fetchlands so thats about 170$ jsut for those 12 cards. the rest is pretty cheap. the good uncommons like vampire nighthawk, gatekeeper of malakir and vampire hexmage roll in at about 2$ each but you can sometimes get them a lot cheaper. the bloodghast will be another 8-10$ each. the rest is cheap. so your looking at about 100$ for the deck itselfe and 120$ for the lands that you can sadly not do without. so once again your over 200$

    boros - ok this deck realy goes over the top. you play a 2-colored deck with 12 (yes 12) fetchlands. you play step lynx and plated geopead (both cost virtualy nothing) and hence need the fetchlands to maximise the landfall. the rest of the deck costs next to nothing. ranger of eos and goblin guide cost about 2-4 $, lightning bolt and path to exile 1-2$ the rest even less. i've seen some decks run a couple of elsbeth (probably 20$ each) but otheres dont. the deck itselve costs only 30-40$ but the fetchlands that the deck realy needs to be good come in at a whopping 180$ bringing you above 200$ yet again.

    sadly not playing the proper lands in these decks realy hurts thier power a lot because they do more than just make sure you have the right mana (or in the case of jund you realy need the right mana because your playing 3 colors).

    normaly i would ask what kind of style of play you like to get a better idear of what deck could appel to you. since you are new to magic you probably have not figgured that out yet ...

    new players tend to love big creatures or tribals (decks that focus on a creature type like elves, goblins etc.)

    big creatures in standard allmost forces you too play baneslayer angel (40$ each) and lotus cobra (~20$ each). why ? they are too good not to. seriously. if you cant afford them try a diffrent deck. you will be happier with it in the end.

    tribals are doable at the moment. vampires have the above mentiond drawback. other tribles that are playable at the moment are:

    goblins
    soldiers
    elves

    if you can give me more info on what you like (colors, creature types, style of play, specific cards your a fan of etc.) i can give you better advice.

    there are even some decks in legacy you can build with only 100-200$ but they are very specific decks. let me know if you want to know more about those.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    I would have to say I'm not particular to a color and in my first few games I tended not to know to attack attack attack....... this mainly being unsure of what to do when now with that said by the time I had played three game rounds with three different people I was alot more comfortable.

    Game 1 - Lost both rounds due to not attacking and being my first game.

    Game 2 - Lost both but almost won second game just got mana robbed really bad with my draws and by the time my mana was built I didn't have enough to life to survive the next round.

    Game 3 - Lose Win Win - I took both games due to being patient with Tanglesap and avoiding a player who pumped her 3 creatures to the hilt and lost it all to one card. Thus giving me the opportunity to attack her with only one defender for the kill.

    This game I played was a Draft which I think was good because no one got a set deck and gave me a huge advantage being new and them not having the goods.

    I played Green/Blue I picked these colors because that is one of the intro packs I bought (I also have White).

    I like to play conservative/aggressive I like either style of play wait until I have everything pumped or get a few creatures out and kill the person moderately fast.

    As far as color I don't think I could really be picky the cards I have seen are all cool looking, green seems to crutch me cause I can't get mana out fast enough to play the big stuff the white deck seems faster and I was told black will be hard to play with. Not seen alot of red other than ppl playing it in the local shop. (Note I have not played with a set deck yet) I'm really open to someone saying start here and learn with these and once I get the mechanics down move to this or talk to me when your more comfortable.

    If I had to pick a color White Red or Black (maybe Green if I could get mana one the field fast enough to have fun with it.

  12. #12
    seba1983 Guest

    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    i would realy sugest you play more games. once you feel comfetable with how the basics work you can think about takeing the step towards a tournament.

    i think it could help to give you a very basic overviwe of what each color is good at. that way you can get a feeling for that color easyier.

    green - mana acceleartion, big creatures and "pump" spells (stuff that makes creatures bigger)

    white - small creatures, lifegain, damage prevention

    blue - stealing stuff (gaining control), preventing spells from happening (counter), drawing cards

    black - killing creatures, discard, returning creatures from graveyard

    red - direct damage (aka burn), aggressive creatures, destroying lands.

    now thats not all these colors do but i will do for an overview.

    in standard blue is quite week at the moment. wizards probably did this to somewhat balance the fact that blue used to be the color that got the most broken (slang for insanly good) cards of all colors. hence legacy (where you can play cards from all sets ever made is very dominated by blue.

    if you want to see if your up to the complexety of legacy yet take a look at these cards and try to figure out for yourself why they are very, very good. if you realsie it for your selfe then you are at a point where playing legacy would no longer be frustrating but challengeing and fun:

    Force of Will

    Daze

    Wasteland

    Swords to Plowshare

    Tarmogoyf

    also you should be able to answer why Tundra is better than Glacial Fortess by a very large margain.

    if all of this puzzels you at the moment do not despaire. legacy is very complex.

    i will take a look at that u/g starter deck (from zendikar right?). may be you can build a fun deck from that, that you can build on a very small budget so you can try playing tournaments without spending a lot. that way you can test if the competative stage is even to your likeing. some players prefer to just play casual.

  13. #13
    Twanos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    whenever I have taught Magic to someone new I always started them on a red deck. small fast creatures, direct damage, spot removal, haste. It lets you learn to be aggressive in the attacks, teaches spells versus creatures and for spells teaches sorcery versus instant.

    Once a person has learned red I tend to take them to white to learn about flying, blocking, life gain and the beginnings of control.

    Third stop is to black for more control and learning sacrifice, discard and graveyard as a resource.

    Last I take them to blue for draw, mill and the easiest to play but hardest to master form of control... counters.

    You'll note I never really introduce them to green. The reason is this... green really only brings 2 unique things to the table. Mana ramp which is important to get a handle on once making the transition from beginner to expert but not until then and Fatty creatures which often prove the downfall of many new players. They see a huge creature and think WOW he's GRRRRREAT!!!. More often than not, no he isn't. I consider starting a player or green the same as setting them up to fail. All too often they fall in love with big creatures and fast mana only to become pissed with the game that they often lose and eventually quit playing thinking the game is stupid.

  14. #14
    seba1983 Guest

    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    very solid aproch ... i like it a lot.

    it is true green seems a good choice to learn the game because it is very simple but it does set new players on a route that looks good but isnt.

    red is very easy to master. also a simple mono red all out aggresive deck is not only easy to play it can also win tournaments on a very small budged.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    The problem I run into is that I can't really play with anyone at the local places because they all have standard decks and I really decided on my own to get into the game and gain a few new friends that could help me on the way. Here I'm looking for a starter standard deck that will help me get in a game and begin to learn rules and procedures that I may not know.

    I figured coming to a forum was pry a faster way to get help considering there will be a bigger following online than at my local shop (lots of players just very sparce at times when I'm there for fun or a player is there and only has a standard deck :P).

    I bought the U/G and White deck just for somewhere to start and I have played with a few people with those decks and I can tell that white intro deck is killing me when I play U/G because of mana costs.

    Zendikar is intro I bought Seba.

    Im not against having to buy a different intro/some cards to get me a standard deck to start playing with.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    And your right Seba I don't fully understand some of the cards you listed for Legacy so I should pry mill around in standard for a bit first.

    Thanks also for all the help you guys are giving me.

  17. #17
    seba1983 Guest

    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    ok that gives me a much better picture of your situation.

    tournament decks (like standard decks) exist in a fairly sealed vacuum from the rest of magic. there is a pretty big gap between what you can play on tournament level and what you can play outside of that.

    sometimes someone will come up with a real innovation that no one had seen that totaly shakes up things. more often however there will be a set of playable decks + a few otheres that are not that good but still playable. with standard this list of deck usualy change a lot when a big set comes out (more precicely the first in a new block) because at that time a lot of cards are no longer playable in standard.

    legacy usually has a much greater diversety of decks that are playable but it changes also a lot slower. that can be good or bad depending on your point of view. for instance it is more expensive to buy a legacy deck but you can play successfully with it for a much longer time. on rare occasions there is a card that shakes up even legacy. Tarmogoyf is such an example. now 70-80% of all decks play that card and several older decks are not viable any more because of it.

    so when you are in a situation where you are new to the game and more or less only have tournament players to play with, starting off with a propper tournament deck that will serve you beyond your learning phase could be a good idear.

    since tournament play classicly is pretty advanced play this narrows the decks i would sudgest to you down quite a bit. i'd go with a deck that is easy enough to play so you can learn with it but also good and fun enough to use once you've got past the learning part.

    a method that might work well is to go with the basics for a tournement deck but replace the expensive stuff with cheap stuff. when you become more expirianced you can then "upgrade" your deck so that it has more ground at tournaments.

    with that method you can basicly use any deck you like. i dont know how nice the people at your store are but there will usualy be some old time gamer with a heart of gold. try finding one and ask him if you could try out some of his standard decks to see how they play and what you like and dislike. these kind of people are usualy also the ones that will give you solid advice on buying, trading and higher levels of trading. as long as you ask nicely and are polite you should find someone who fits the description.

    if you have the chance try to play some games with the following deck since they make up a big part of standard at the moment:

    jund
    vampires
    boros or bushwacker or boros bushwacker

    naya agro
    crule control
    bant agro
    mono red agro
    white weeny

    here are some decks that i personaly think are very interesting but that are not played as much as the above:

    mono white control
    crypt combo
    elves
    mana ramp
    time sive combo
    turbo fog

    the deck content that any player arround the world would give you when you ask him for a standard deck by one of those names will be shockingly close to one another. many people just copy decks from the internet. fact is however that there are so many magic players arround the world that after a few weeks the best decks have been found and tested and most of the time the lists dont change much.

    when you are past the learning part and past the playing tournaments part you can start getting into the innovation part. in your situation trying to be innovative befor you have expirianced what already does work and why would most likely end in much frustration. im not saying you should not get creative your selfe, im just saying in your situation you should give that some time. i recon on the whole you will have more fun that way.

    i hope you find someone who is willing to show you some decks and you find one that you realy like. then i can give you some tips how to change them from the "real" list to make it more budget for the start. you will win less games with a budget list in total but you will still win games. also facing stronger decks means you have to play better to beat them. that will speed up your learning. its like when you want to train running straping weights onto you ^^.

    i can also help you work out a step by step plan how and what to upgrade in what order, how much you should spend on that max. etc.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    Thanks for the information I went to our local shop tonight and a guy I played against in the draft asked me if I was going to play standard friday night I said I couldn't because I didn't have a deck and told him I wanted to try something like a red "burn" deck he replied with "Come up friday and I will build you a deck to play with" !

    I'll let you know how it goes and thanks again for helping me

    Edit: for one last question How does standard work with the expansions rotating just curious and didn't ask tonight before I left.

  19. #19
    seba1983 Guest

    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    first off good luck for frieday. burn is very aggressive so try putting your opponent from 20 to 0 as fast as possible.

    magic has 2 organisational systems for editions. blocks and coresets. standard consists of the current 2 blocks and the current core set.

    a block usually consists of a stand-alone and two expansions. a stand alone is a large set that usually is follwed by two smaller expansion sets.

    shards of alara is a stand-alone with conflux and alara reborn being its expansions. together the make up the alara block. zendikar is a stand-alone. its expansions have not been realeased yet. the first (worldwake) will be released in febuary.

    sometimes a block does not follow the standard build up. shadowmoor / lorwin (not standard any more) was made up of large set - small set - large set - small set (lorwin - morning tide - shadowmoore - evening tide). zendikar will look like this large set - small set - large set.

    when the first set of a new block is released the compleat oldest block in standard rotates out. so when zendikar was released all of lorwin/shadowmoore left standard.

    the current core set is Magic 2010. when a new core set is released (the next one will be Magic 2011) the old one rotates out.

    currently standard is made up of the following sets:

    shards of alara
    conflux
    alara reborn

    zendikar

    magic 2010

    any other question ?

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Building my 1st deck

    Okay so just to make sure I completely understand this atm if I'm using Zendikar cards available for it are.

    M10
    Zendikar
    Worldwake (in February)

    When Magic 2011 is released it will be

    2011
    Zendikar
    Worldwake

    And the first expansion for 2011 will move Zendikar out of the grouping correct?

 

 

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