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  1. #1
    kartiv is offline Uncommon
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    Default Godhead of Awe and Crusader of Odric

    Godhead of Awe and Crusader of Odric

    whats the Crusader's power and toughness?

  2. #2
    Twanos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Godhead of Awe and Crusader of Odric

    which came into play first?
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  3. #3
    Arix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Godhead of Awe and Crusader of Odric

    It doesn't matter. The Crusader will be a 1/1. The Crusader's power/toughness defining ability is applied in sublayer 7a, while the Godhead's is applied in 7b.
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  4. #4
    kartiv is offline Uncommon
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    Default Re: Godhead of Awe and Crusader of Odric

    whats sublayer 7a and 7b mean

  5. #5
    Arix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Godhead of Awe and Crusader of Odric

    The different sublayers that changes to a creature's power and toughness apply in. You go down the list of sublayers in order to determine what the creature's power and toughness is. Don't worry too much about it, it's deep judgey stuff that we don't expect the majority of players to memorise.
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  6. #6
    Twanos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Godhead of Awe and Crusader of Odric

    Arix, so I don't mis-advise anyone in the future why would the time stamp not matter given the ruling on the card?

    Godhead of Awe's ability overwrites other effects that set a creature's power and toughness to specific values only if those effects existed before the Godhead entered the battlefield. It will not overwrite effects that modify power or toughness (whether from a static ability, counters, or a resolved spell or ability), nor will it overwrite effects that set power and toughness which come into existence after the Godhead enters the battlefield. Effects that switch the creature's power and toughness are always applied after any other power or toughness changing effects, including that of the Godhead.
    Is it because Crusader isn't having it's P/T set to a specific number?
    Past Master, Theodore Roosevelt #322 Green Bay, WI
    Past Master, Des Peres #85 De Pere, WI
    Past High Priest, Warren Chapter #8, Green Bay, WI
    Past Thrice Illustrious Master, Warren Council #13, Green Bay, WI
    Past Commander, Palestine Commandry #20 Green Bay, WI
    Inner Guard, Holy Royal Arch Knight Templar Priests
    Member, Knight York Cross of Honour
    Most Illustrious Grand Master, Grand Council of Royal and Select Masters of Wisconsin
    32 Mason, AASR, Valley of Green Bay, WI

  7. #7
    Arix's Avatar
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    Default Re: Godhead of Awe and Crusader of Odric

    No, it's because the Crusader's ability is what's called a characteristic-defining ability - meaning, quite literally, an ability that defines the card's characteristics. Here's the definition of a characteristic-defining ability:
    604.3a. A static ability is a characteristic-defining ability if it meets the following criteria: (1) It defines an object's colors, subtypes, power, or toughness; (2) it is printed on the card it affects, it was granted to the token it affects by the effect that created the token, or it was acquired by the object it affects as the result of a copy effect or text-changing effect; (3) it does not directly affect the characteristics of any other objects; (4) it is not an ability that an object grants to itself; and (5) it does not set the values of such characteristics only if certain conditions are met.
    What this basically means is that you can imagine whatever the number of creatures on the battlefield is as the number written in the p/t box. As I said above, these abilities are always applied first when determining a creature's power and toughness.

    For reference, the sublayers are:
    7a. Characteristic-defining abilities.
    7b. Effects that set p/t to a specific number or value.
    7c. Effects that modify p/t without setting it (such as Last Gasp or Glorious Anthem).
    7d. Changes from counters.
    7e. Effects that switch power and toughness.
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  8. #8
    Twanos's Avatar
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    Default Re: Godhead of Awe and Crusader of Odric

    Thank you, I appreciate your laying that out so I don't make that mistake again.
    Past Master, Theodore Roosevelt #322 Green Bay, WI
    Past Master, Des Peres #85 De Pere, WI
    Past High Priest, Warren Chapter #8, Green Bay, WI
    Past Thrice Illustrious Master, Warren Council #13, Green Bay, WI
    Past Commander, Palestine Commandry #20 Green Bay, WI
    Inner Guard, Holy Royal Arch Knight Templar Priests
    Member, Knight York Cross of Honour
    Most Illustrious Grand Master, Grand Council of Royal and Select Masters of Wisconsin
    32 Mason, AASR, Valley of Green Bay, WI

 

 




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