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  1. #1
    Tetris is offline Uncommon
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    Default Havoc Festival and Soul Conduit rules

    What happens if other player has more life than me and I use soul conduit with a Havoc Festival in play?

    Am guessing other player will lose life but I won't gain?

  2. #2
    Jake1991's Avatar
    Jake1991 is offline Scarce
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    Default Re: Havoc Festival and Soul Conduit rules

    Soul Conduit's Gatherer Rulings:

    If a player can't gain life, that player can't exchange life totals with a player with a higher life total.

    The exchange won't happen.

  3. #3
    Tetris is offline Uncommon
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    Default Re: Havoc Festival and Soul Conduit rules

    how come? because doen't a spell try to resolve as much as possible?

  4. #4
    Jake1991's Avatar
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    Default Re: Havoc Festival and Soul Conduit rules

    Quote Originally Posted by Tetris View Post
    how come? because doen't a spell try to resolve as much as possible?
    The exchange is impossible.

    Quote Originally Posted by Comprehensive Rulebook
    118.7. If an effect says that a player can’t gain life, that player can’t make an exchange such that the
    player’s life total would become higher; in that case, the exchange won’t happen.

  5. #5
    Arix's Avatar
    Arix is offline Merrymaker
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    Default Re: Havoc Festival and Soul Conduit rules

    Exchanges cannot be one-sided. If a player can't give something away, they can't get something back.
    Fluttershy is best pony.

  6. #6
    Ditto is offline Uncommon
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    Default Re: Havoc Festival and Soul Conduit rules

    can I still use Dramatic Rescue to return a creature without gaining life?

  7. #7
    Kenji's Avatar
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    Default Re: Havoc Festival and Soul Conduit rules

    Yes, because returning a creature to its owner's hand is not dependant on being able to gain life. It's not as though gaining 2 life happens in exchange for bouncing a creature at all. If you're unable to gain life, then you simply won't gain life from Dramatic Rescue. This would be an example of a case where the spell resolves as much as possible.

  8. #8
    willie is offline Uncommon
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    Default Re: Havoc Festival and Soul Conduit rules

    if its not dependant then why do the rules for dramatic rescue say:
    If the target creature is an illegal target when Dramatic Rescue tries to resolve, it will be countered and none of its effects will happen. You won’t gain 2 life.

  9. #9
    Kenji's Avatar
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    Default Re: Havoc Festival and Soul Conduit rules

    (Be prepared for a somewhat long read here. Or, you can skip to the convenient TL;DR at the bottom. )

    Yes, because returning a creature to its owner's hand is not dependant on being able to gain life.
    If the target creature is an illegal target when Dramatic Rescue tries to resolve, it will be countered and none of its effects will happen. You won’t gain 2 life.
    The first quote is what I said, and the second quote is from the Return to Ravnica FAQ, as you mentioned. How, exactly, are these two things in conflict? I never said "gaining life is not dependant on returning a creature to its owner's hand," because that isn't what I meant, and it obviously isn't true. Review the below excerpt from the Comprehensive Rules. Pay special attention to the part I put in bold, if you can't be bothered to read the whole thing:

    608.2b If the spell or ability specifies targets, it checks whether the targets are still legal. A target
    that’s no longer in the zone it was in when it was targeted is illegal. Other changes to the game
    state may cause a target to no longer be legal; for example, its characteristics may have changed
    or an effect may have changed the text of the spell. If the source of an ability has left the zone it
    was in, its last known information is used during this process. The spell or ability is countered if
    all its targets, for every instance of the word “target,” are now illegal.
    If the spell or ability is not
    countered, it will resolve normally. However, if any of its targets are illegal, the part of the spell
    or ability’s effect for which it is an illegal target can’t perform any actions on that target or
    make that target perform any actions. The effect may still determine information about illegal
    targets, though, and other parts of the effect for which those targets are not illegal may still
    affect them.
    Let's quote that on its own, real quick:

    The spell or ability is countered if all its targets, for every instance of the word "target," are now illegal.
    I absolutely never said anything to the contrary. I didn't say "returning a creature to its owners hand and gaining life aren't dependant on each other," because that's not true, and it's not what I said. =P

    What I did say is that returning a creature to its owner's hand isn't dependant on being able to gain life, which is absolutely true.. If Platinum Emperion is on the battlefield, for example, you can still use Dramatic Rescue even though you can't gain life.

    TL;DR - Nothing I said is in conflict with the Return to Ravnica FAQ entry for Dramatic Rescue, which is simply reiterating something that the Comprehensive Rules already explain.

    I hope this clears it all up for ya!

    One more time, in case I was being too verbose or not clear enough, this is the short of it:

    Dramatic Rescue can return a creature to its owner's hand, even if you're unable to gain life. That's all I meant to convey in my first post of this thread. If that isn't clear enough...then I really, really don't know what else to say. -_-

 

 




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