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Thread: how would seance work with loyal cathar?

  1. #1
    Mountain is offline Uncommon
    Join Date
    Apr 2009

    Default how would seance work with loyal cathar?

    how would seance work with loyal cathar?

  2. #2
    Arix's Avatar
    Arix is offline Merrymaker
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    Dec 2009

    Default Re: how would seance work with loyal cathar?

    The same way it works with every other creature. What's confusing you?
    Fluttershy is best pony.

  3. #3
    Kenji's Avatar
    Kenji is offline Scarce
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    Jan 2011

    Default Re: how would seance work with loyal cathar?

    To be more specific: Sťance exiles the Loyal Cathar, and creates a token that's a copy of it, which goes onto the battlefield.

    The Loyal Cathar's trigger is when it "dies," which is shorthand for "is put into the graveyard from the battlefield."

    700.6. The term dies means “is put into a graveyard from the battlefield.” It is used only when referring
    to creatures.
    Seance causes the token to be exiled at the beginning of the next end step, which is obviously different from going to the graveyard.

    Even if you get the Loyal Cathar token to die before it's exiled, it cannot transform, for several reasons:

    1. Tokens are not double-faced cards, so they can never transform.
    2. Once it leaves the battlefield, a token can never return to the battlefield, or move to another zone.
    3. A token that is phased out, or otherwise not on the battlefield, will cease to exist the next time state-based actions are checked.

    Here is the relevant rule to help as well:

    701.25a Only permanents represented by double-faced cards can transform. (See rule 711, “DoubleFaced Cards.”) If a spell or ability instructs a player to transform any permanent that isn’t represented by a double-faced card, nothing happens.
    Long story short: while Sťance can be used with Loyal Cathar just fine, the token copy cannot and does not transform, ever.

    Clear enough?



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