does a cryptoplasm also copy +1/+1 tokens?
Printable View
does a cryptoplasm also copy +1/+1 tokens?
Nope.Quote:
Originally Posted by hideseek
Also, they're +1/+1 counters, not tokens.
what are the differences between tokens and counters?
Tokens represent permanents such as creatures, counters are things that go on permanents to mark something.
do +1/+1 counters go to graveyard with creature when it dies?
No. Once a creature leaves the battlefield for any reason, any counters on it stop existing (with the exception of Skullbriar, the Walking Grave).
if cryptoplasm copies the Skullbriar and has +1/+1 counters on it when it died to counters remain
Yes, they do. But if the Cryptoplasm were to then leave the graveyard, they'd disappear.
even if it returns to battlefield? why
Because after it leaves the battlefield, it's no longer a copy of Skullbriar, so it doesn't have the ability that lets it keep the counters any more.
yeah but its going back into the battlefield so what does it matter if it has ability or not because it does not need it all creatures can have counters on battlefield not just skullbriar
The following part of Skullbriar's text actually addresses this:
Since Cryptoplasm no longer has that ability once it's in the graveyard, any counters that are on it in the graveyard will not transfer over when it moves to any zone. One of the Gatherer rulings for Skullbriar tells you this as well:Quote:
Counters remain on Skullbriar as it moves to any zone other than a player's hand or library.
Since Cryptoplasm certainly isn't an exception (it's no longer Skullbriar once it leaves the battlefield -- this is how every creature-copying card works), the above rule applies to it. And, going even further down the rabbit hole, here's a Comprehensive Rules document excerpt:Quote:
9/22/2011: If a card becomes a copy of Skullbriar, counters will remain on that card when it leaves the battlefield (unless it goes to your hand or library). Once it does so, it stops being a copy of Skullbriar, so those counters will cease to exist when that card next changes zones.
So, while what you say is true -- of course, all creatures can have counters on them while they're on the battlefield. However, as the above rule points out, any counters that an object has will cease to exist if that object moves from one zone to another. Skullbriar's text specifically negates this from happening -- and again, Cryptoplasm in the graveyard does not retain Skullbriar's abilities whatsoever.Quote:
121.2. Counters on an object are not retained if that object moves from one zone to another. The
counters are not “removed”; they simply cease to exist. See rule 400.7
Hopefully, that all makes sense.
but wait a moment then how come cryptoplasm has the counters in the graveyard if it no longer has ability there
Because, as Cryptoplasm leaves the battlefield, it's a copy of Skullbriar, so it has the ability. It only stops being a copy of Skullbriar once it's well and truly in the graveyard. It was Skullbriar as it went to the graveyard, so it had the ability that let it keep its counters.
yeah but then doesnt it lose the counters once it loses ability
No. The ability only needs to apply as it's changing zones.
I think he meant that you cannot put counters on creature in graveyards. So once cryptoplasm loses that ability, he will be just like any other creature thats in the graveyard so he wont be able to keep the counters
Well, that's wrong. Even the Gatherer rulings for Skullbriar say that.
if the skullbriar was boosted while on the battlefield like with Giant Growth and then a -1/-1 counter was placed on it and then a Melira, Sylvok Outcast was casted and then the skullbriar went to graveyard, would Melira cause the counters not to move with it?
No. Melira only stops counters from being put on the creature. It does nothing to counters that are already there.
i mean arent the counters technically put again on skullbriar after it enters graveyard?
No. They don't come off and then go back on. They just stay on.
I thought in the graveyard creatures are not permanents?
Yes, but what does that have to do with anything?