Zendikar Celestial Mantle - Overpowered?

[Sphinx]

Celestial Mantle the new card from Zendikar reads:


Enchantment - Aura

3www

Enchant Creature

Enchant creature Enchanted creature gets +3/+ 3. Whenever enchanted creature deals combat damage to a player, double its controller's life total.

So like if you are at 15 life when you attack with the attack creature, you go up to 30 life? And then to 60?

Is this considered broken?

[seba1983]

sorry to disapoint you but this is considerd a realy bad card. it is very slow at 6 mana. most dedicated agro decks in standart kill between turn 3 (!!!) and turn 5. its an aura and thats almost always a bad thing. you play it on a creature and i kill the creature. than i used 1 card to do that and you used 2 so i now have generated card advantage and it can not be stressed too much how important that is in competetiv play. lastly you simply so not need this card. Baneslayer Angel already gives you all the lifegain you want for a competetiv deck and the enchantment has 3 serious downsides to the angel: 1. it costs more 2. it does nothing on its own. 3. it doesnt win games the angel does.

all in all unless some realy good creatures popp up where you can stick this on safely it will not see any play. you basic 10 cent rare.

in casual im sure this thing is a lot of fun but dont give away anything that worth something to get these ... i'd say a playset of ponder or negate are worth more than this card ...

[TauntingElf]

Yeah its pretty expensive, plus its easy to kill or disenchant or just block the enchanted creature

maybe with some sort of combo could be good then

[seba1983]

in casual games you could stick it on Silhana Ledgewalker that keeps the enchantment a little more safe and makes it easyer for you to actualy deal damage to an opponent. add Test of Endurance to the mix and you've got your self a fun casual deck.

but even then i think its better to play with Armadillo Cloak, Behemoth Sledge and Loxodon Warhammer because they give trample so creatures like Troll Ascetic are realy good targets as well.

remebmer you have to damage the opponent for the enchantment to trigger so if i can block you with some saproling toke all day it wont do anything.

[Twanos]

Forget Test of Endurance... The new Zendikar rare Felidar Sovereign will be the wat to go for casual. 10 less live you need, it's a 4/6, has lifelink...

I can see someone making a life gain deck in standard to try to capitalize on all of these cards.

white with a little green for rampant growth, harrow

[seba1983]

ture 10 less life needed but when i have the choice i'll go with the test. enchantments are not as fragile when compaired with creatures.

[Urza]

I think its a good card if you manage to play it correctly, but definetly not broken. 6 mana (out of them 3 colored mana) is very expensive. Plus you also need a creature which meants the cost for this in the end is actually 7 mana (incl. 3 colored mana)

[seba1983]

i think the mana is an issue but the bigger issue is getting the creature you put it on to actualy deal combat damage to an opponent. and even then it does not help winning. sure it helps not loosing and in some games that is the same but not in all games. the +3/+3 however is actualy quite nice because brunspells probably wont take the creature out any more and that part actualy helps wining ...

[CastleKing]

I think Celestial Mantle will see some play mostly in casual decks, but a lot less in competitive decks

[Sphinx]

How does celestial mantle work with lifelink? Like do I double my life, then gain the life from lifelink? Or do I gain life from lifelink, then double my life (more life the 2nd way)

[Twanos]

I don't have access to the rules here at work because the site is blocked so Seba correct me if I'm wrong here...

Lifelink is now (as of M10) considered a static ability which is what causes multiple instances of it to be redundant.

Where as the life double effect of mantle will be a triggered ability.

One of two things happens at this point and without a way to look it up I'm not sure which.

1) the player with priority (the attacker) will choose the order in which the are put on the stack as they both will have occured since the last priority change. (this is what I think will happen at which point the player will want to put the double effect on the stack first then the lifelink)

2)the static ability will always go first onto the stack then the triggered ability will go on after.

Why does this matter??

Lets say mantle is on a 1/1 making it a 4/4 that has lifelink and you are at 10 life.

Under scenario 1, if you choose the double going on the stack first then the lifelink they resolve in last in, first out so the lifelink makes you gain 4 life putting you at 14 then you double it putting you at 28.

Under scenario 2, the opposite happens so you double the life putting you at 20 then you gain the 4 life leaving you at 24.

[seba1983]

lifelink is now part of the "damage event". since that no longer uses the stack you've already gained the life befor the mantel even triggers. so you gain life first then double.

118.3e Damage dealt to an object or player by a source with lifelink causes that source's controller to gain that much life, in addition to the damage's other results.

Example: A player who controls Boon Reflection, an enchantment that says "If you would gain life, you gain twice that much life instead," attacks with a 3/3 creature with wither and lifelink. It's blocked by a 2/2 creature, and the defending player casts a spell that prevents the next 2 damage that would be dealt to the blocking creature. The damage event starts out as [3 damage is dealt to the 2/2 creature, 2 damage is dealt to the 3/3 creature]. The prevention effect is applied, so the damage event becomes [1 damage is dealt to the 2/2 creature, 2 damage is dealt to the 3/3 creature]. That's transformed into its results, so the damage event is now [one -1/-1 counter is put on the 2/2 creature, the active player gains 1 life, 2 damage is marked on the 3/3 creature]. Boon Reflection's effect is applied, so the damage event becomes [one -1/-1 counter is put on the 2/2 creature, the active player gains 2 life, 2 damage is marked on the 3/3 creature]. Then the damage event occurs.


However im not realy used to the new damage rules yet. so i might have missed something reading the rules just now so im not gonna give a 100% certain on this.

[TauntingElf]

If you get a 1/1 creature and enchant it with celestial mantle then attack the other player for 4 turns, youll be winning the game with 640 life

Never gonna happen though (except maybe against a total newbie...) but still fun to think about

[seba1983]

im not gonna check the math now :P but when you consider the powerlevel of a card keep in mind that in the end it does not matter if you win with 640 life or just 1.

[Baelog]

Not overpowered.

The other player will focus on getting rid of it, either by getting rid of the enchantment, or getting rid of the creature. Otherwise he will always just block the creature so that theres no damage. too easy to get rid of this. And 6 mana were waster which couldve been used for better things.

[Josh]

Could be used a lot with felidar sovereign to try and get quick win

Felidar Sovereign 4WW
Creature - Cat Beast
Vigilance, lifelink
At the beginning of your upkeep, if you have 40 or more life, you win the game.

[seba1983]

totaly awful idear for constructed. casual ok but take it to a tournament and i predict that you will a) not do very well and b) probably get a lot of fun made on you cost. even as a finisher for something like mono-W control there are much better options that dont die to just about every playable spot removal thats out there.

[teletel]

yeah I agree, am guessing though will see some play in casual games

[Nondaime5]

Well I think it could be a great card, especially with

Sovereigns of lost Alara (2WB)
4/5 Creature - Spirit
-Exalted(Whenever a creature you control attacks alone, that creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.)
-Whenever a creature you control attacks alone, you may search your library for an Aura card that could enchant that creature, put it into play attached to that creature, then shuffle your library.

That makes it possible to play Celestial Mantle in 4th turn, and if you combine it with

Steel of the Godhead (2 W/B)
Enchantment - Aura
-As long as enchanted creature is white, it gets +1/+1 and has lifelink
-As long as enchanted creature is blue, it gets +1/+1 and is UNBLOCKABLE

This way, we can do even from 1/1 creature (like e. g. Zealous Guardian - W/B) pretty strong 6/6 unblockable creature with lifelink (7/7 if it attacks alone), obviously our life being doubled in the process, in the fourth turn. To protect it, we can also play some kind of shroud aura (Robe of mirrors - B).

It is based on luck, though, but with Azorius Chanceries it's easy to have both W and B in second turn, so I wouldn't see problem in mana.

[seba1983]

Well I think it could be a great card, especially with

Sovereigns of lost Alara (2WB)
4/5 Creature - Spirit
-Exalted(Whenever a creature you control attacks alone, that creature gets +1/+1 until end of turn.)
-Whenever a creature you control attacks alone, you may search your library for an Aura card that could enchant that creature, put it into play attached to that creature, then shuffle your library.

That makes it possible to play Celestial Mantle in 4th turn, and if you combine it with

errrr NO soverains cost 4WU not 2WB ... also you can only search for one of the enchantments every time you attack not for both. so if you want the steel of the godhead first your getting the mantle on a creature turn 7 and a single bounce costs you 2 cards ... do i need to stress that that could be an awful plan ?