how long does a magic game usually take
how long does a magic game usually take
as short as 1 sec (if someone conceeds) to as long as 2 days (we have 61 players in the one armageddon style game way back in the day when shahrazad was legal and unrestricted and so was fork. The game ended in a 61 way tie.)
The average time for a normal type 2 game is 5-20 min
Why would someone concede after 1 sec?
If was are late in a tourny with a firm lead on the competition we some times agree to each conceed a game and take a draw on the 3rd. This was we both get 1 point and stay at the top and thus make the cut to the finals whereas if we play out that round, the one that loses has a chance of being missing the cut.
Is that legal in a tourney? Isn't it considered poor sportsmanship or something? I mean if I were the one who might be making the cut if one of you lost the game, I wouldnt be happy with this arrangements
I went and looked in the tournament rules located here:
Welcome to the DCI Document Center! : Tournaments & Events : Trading Card Game : Magic: The Gathering
And it says:
2.4 Conceding or Intentionally Drawing Games or Matches
If a game or match is not completed, players may concede or mutually agree to a draw that game or match at any time. Players may not concede or draw games that have already been completed and may not reach an agreement in exchange for any reward or incentive. If a player refuses to play, it is assumed that he or she has conceded the match.
So seems like conceding or agreeing for a draw is considered legal.
Then maybe those rules need to be changed might be unfair to other participants in the tourney
(btw I havent played in tourneys yet so dont have much experience with how stuff goes there but am planning to play in tourneys soon once I get more experience and practice)
Even if they did change it how would they enforce it, like how can a judge know if a player conceded intentionally or if they had an agreement
If the match takes 1 sec then the judge can be suspicious
Also if theres 2 concessions and a draw
Though the rules say "may not reach an agreement in exchange for any reward or incentive"
Isn't guaranteeing not to get cut from the tourney considered an "incentive"?
I think "reward" and "incentive" refer more to like a bribe of some sort like if the other player tells you he'll give you $100 to agree on a draw then it would be illegal
Here is an article from Starcitygames on the matter:
Yawgmoth’s Whimsy #179 - Concessions and IDs, by Peter Jahn - a Magic: the Gathering article
From it:
"Intentional draws, to ensure a place in the Top 8, are a fact of life. They are legal under the rules. They also change the make-up of the Top 8, and the pairings, but so do wins and loses when matches are played out. Like them or not, IDs are legal, and that's just how it is."
In a tourney you get 3 points if you win the round, 1 point if you draw and 0 if you lose. If the tourney has 5 rounds then is going to cut to the top 8 it would work like this... This assumes a small local tourney of about 30 people. (This is just an example real results will of course vary.)
Round 1 Place - Points
1st - 3
1st - 3
1st - 3
1st - 3
1st - 3
1st - 3
1st - 3
1st - 3
1st - 3
1st - 3
1st - 3
1st - 3
1st - 3
1st - 3
1st - 3
16th - 0
16th - 0
16th - 0
16th - 0
16th - 0
16th - 0
16th - 0
16th - 0
16th - 0
16th - 0
16th - 0
16th - 0
16th - 0
16th - 0
16th - 0
Round 2 Place - Points
1st - 6
1st - 6
1st - 6
1st - 6
1st - 6
1st - 6
1st - 6
1st - 6
9th - 3
9th - 3
9th - 3
9th - 3
9th - 3
9th - 3
9th - 3
9th - 3
9th - 3
9th - 3
9th - 3
9th - 3
9th - 3
9th - 3
23rd - 0
23rd - 0
23rd - 0
23rd - 0
23rd - 0
23rd - 0
23rd - 0
23rd - 0
Round 3 Place - Points
1st - 9
1st - 9
1st - 9
1st - 9
5th - 6
5th - 6
5th - 6
5th - 6
5th - 6
5th - 6
5th - 6
5th - 6
5th - 6
5th - 6
5th - 6
16th - 3
16th - 3
16th - 3
16th - 3
16th - 3
16th - 3
16th - 3
16th - 3
16th - 3
16th - 3
16th - 3
27th - 0
27th - 0
27th - 0
27th - 0
Round 4 Place - Points
1st - 12
1st - 12
3rd - 9
3rd - 9
3rd - 9
3rd - 9
3rd - 9
3rd - 9
9th - 6
9th - 6
9th - 6
9th - 6
9th - 6
9th - 6
9th - 6
9th - 6
9th - 6
9th - 6
9th - 6
22nd - 3
22nd - 3
22nd - 3
22nd - 3
22nd - 3
22nd - 3
22nd - 3
29th - 0
29th - 0
Now for round 5 the math looks like this...
The 2 people with 12 points are definatly going to get in the finals so the game doesn't really matter to them. They may choose to conceed/Intential Draw - not to make sure they make the cut but to keep theit deck content secret from each other until the finals or they could play it out.
For the people at 9 points though conceed/ID makes a huge difference. If you play it out 3 of the "9s" will be 12 and make the cut, the other 3 will still be at 9 points. Half (6 players) will win making them be at 9 points. for a total of 9 people (6 winners from the "6s" pairing and 3 losers from the "9's"pairing). Not given that the top 2 made the cut and the 3 winners from the "9's" pairing that means you only have 3 spots for the 9 people that have 9 points so it will be decided by tie breakers. So the 3 people who were already at 9 points but lost are in jepordy of not making the cut.
If on the other hand all of the "9s" conceede/ID then they all get the 1 point for a draw putting them at 10 points. So the 2 top guys and all 6 of the "9s" make the cut. The 6 winners from the "6s" pairing now have their 9 points and will get 2 top 8 slots based on tie breakers but the people at 10 points have locked in a place thanks to the conceed/ID.
So if you were one of the 6 guys at 9 points at the end of round 4 wouldn't you rather do a conceed/ID and lock in a spot in the top 8 or would you rather play and if you lose possibly be cut out of the tourney because you lose the tiebreakers?
Tournements are about winning, you do the conceed/ID.
Also how did it end in the 61 way tie?
We played straight thur sleeping while it wasn't our turn some times.
Shahrazad
Fork
As for how it ended in a tie Shahrazad + (Fork*LOTS)= Subgame HELL... There were about 30 of us running shahrazads and almost everyone was running fork. I know I had 4 shahrazad in my deck and 4 forks.
Game 1 - Shahrazad + 7 Fork = Game 1.1, Game 1.2, Game 1.3, Game 1.4, Game 1.5, Game 1.6, Game 1.7, Game 1.8
Game 1.8 - Everyone dies due to not having enough cards to draw a hand of 7 = Game 1 everyone will be at 10
Game 1.7 - Everyone dies due to not having enough cards to draw a hand of 7 = Game 1 everyone will be at 5
Game 1.6 - Shahrazad + 1 Fork = Game 1.6.1, Game 1.6.2
Game 1.6.2 - Everyone dies due to not having enough cards to draw a hand of 7 = Game 1.6 everyone at 10
Game 1.6.1 - Everyone dies due to not having enough cards to draw a hand of 7 = Game 1.6 everyone at 5
Game 1.6 - Shahrazad = Game 1.6.3
Game 1.6.3 - Everyone dies due to not having enough cards to draw a hand of 7 = Game 1.6 everyone at 3
Game 1.6 - Game resolves 1 person in game 1 will be at 5 everyone else will be at 3
This process continues for so long and thru so many sub games (over 400) that by the time we got back to Game 1 everyone had lost their half life (rounded down)so many times we were all at 1, but even though we got to the point we knew how it was going to end pretty fast we had to complete all of th subgames in order to get back to the main game for it to resolve. Once back in the main game the player who went next did swamp, dark ritual, dark ritual, pestillence and activated it for 1.
Oh incase you're wondering the deepest we got in subgames was 1.1.83.44.11.3 I'll never forget that game.
Last edited by Twanos; 09-08-2009 at 09:01 PM.
when I play with a friend its like 20-30 minutes for magic game
can take from a few minutes to a few hours on the extreme... most games I play I think take about 15 to 20 minutes