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I have a question about cards like Latulla Keldon Overseer?
The card in question is a creature with the ability to tap X colorless, 1 red, and itself: discard two cards from your hand: Latulla, Keldon Overseer deals X damage to target creature or player.
What im asking is can you still use its power when you have no cards to discard?
It's common sense, dude...the card clearly states "cards from your hand"...if you have no cards in your hand...then...do you have cards from your hand that you can discard?
NO
Discarding two cards is the cost to play the ability. If you can't pay the cost in full, you can't play the ability.
Alterloth, that explanation is a little misleading. There are similar cards that you can use with no cards in hand, such as Null Brooch and Ring of Renewal.
@Arix: What? If you have no cards in your hand then you cannot use the abilities from the cards that you mentioned...there is nothing misleading about my explanation...
Yes, you can. Null Brooch says "Discard your hand", which means "Discard all the cards in your hand". You can do that, even if you have no cards there. And for Ring of Renewal, the discard is part of the effect, not the cost. You can use both of those cards (and probably many other similar ones I'm not thinking of) if you have no cards in your hand.
I was only asking because my friend tried to debate me on this. As you have proven i was right all along. So hows about you get that stick up your ass out. This is a forum for people asking questions about how to play the game. Go to youtube if you want to be an anonymous dick head.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alterloth
@Alterloth: Its pretty douchey to act elitist.
AAAAAAAAAHHH!!! :eek: Show me an official rule
@Radioadtiveman: Dude...chill out and take a happy pill, ok? Go get some therapy or something...its pretty ****ing immature to call someone names...
People, this is not acceptable. Alterloth, there's no need to act all high and mighty when someone asks a simple question. Radioactiveman, if you have a problem contact the staff, don't make yourself as bad as the person you have a problem with. Consider this a warning for the both of you.
It says it right there on the cards. "Discard your hand" - you always have a hand even if there are no cards in it. As for the Ring, well, the discard comes after the colon, therefore it's part of the effect. That's just how the game works.Quote:
Originally Posted by Alterloth
No need to blindly believe a random shmuck. Just know that I've gotten 100% every time I've taken the judge renewal test and have acted as head judge at several high-level events such as PTQs. Just sayin' is all.
*snip*
-Arix
I wasn't trying to act Elitist...
I just personally thought that idea of having no cards in your hand and then using those abilities even when you don't have cards in your hand as generally crazy...doesn't matter who says what...I still find it crazy...someone can tell me that it is true all they like...I'll accept it and still think it is ridiculous...
Usually how it goes with ANY card game is...if you have no cards to play...then you have no hand...like, I'm sorry and everything...it just sounds retarded in general...
so about ring of renewal
According to this link:
Crystal Keep - Magic Rulings Search Results
it has been errata'd and it says:
Text (FE+errata): {5},{Tap}, Discard a card at random: Draw two cards. [Oracle 2005/08/01]
in which the random discard was moved before the colon and is now part of the cost.
In gatherer, however, the oracle text of ring of renewal has it AFTER the colon so its part of the effect. (Where did the above errata go??) . however, underneath the ruling says
"10/4/2004 The card is discarded from your hand during announcement and as a cost."
so whats going on with that card?
Ring's Oracle text change (the change that moved the discard to the effect rather than the cost) is fairly recent, and sometimes with recent rules changes the Oracle rulings aren't updated straight away. And remember, it doesn't matter what Crystal Keep says - the Oracle text of Gatherer is the official text that you go by.
Alterloth: If you can't complete all of a card's effects, as long as at least one target is legal (if it's targeted), you just do as much as possible. If it was the other way around, then sure, you couldn't activate Ring without a card in hand. But then you get much weirder and less intuitive interactions - for example, when Day of Judgment resolves, if there's an indestructible creature in play, then you can't complete part of its effect and therefore no creatures would be destroyed.
Besides which, there's no way for the game to know, when you activate an ability, whether or not you'll be able to complete all of its effects upon resolution. You could activate Ring with a card in hand, ready to discard when the ability resolves. But then something could cause you to lose that card before the ability resolves. What happens then?
Bottom line, it's just a whole lot easier the way it is.
Like I said, don't doubt the dragon.
what about Cemetery Reaper?
It's a different situation, but the same basic result. Exiling a card isn't part of the cost, so it's not that. However, another thing you need to be able to do in order to play an ability is choose all legal targets for it. With no creature cards in graveyards, there's no target for the Reaper's ability and therefore you can't play it.