How do you interpret Rootborn Defenses please?

[cboyer1951]

Sorry if this is the wrong forum to ask this kind of question.
What is the proper forum to just ask 'what does this card do' ??


Well Rootborn Defenses
(I've been buying Return to Ravnica Booster Battle Packs.)

Rootborn Defenses 2W (3)
Instant
Populate.
Creatures you control are indestructible this turn.

(To populate, put a token onto the battlefield that's
a copy of a creature token you control.
Damage and effects that say "destroy"
don't destroy indestructible creatures.)

--------------------------
I understand the name, and the mana cost of 2 'any' mana and 1 white mana.
I understand an instant is played and discarded to the graveyard.

Creatures you control are indestructible this turn, I understand ok.
For 3 mana this is pretty good. No?

But how to populate is totally unfamiliar to me at this stage in my learning the game.
put a token (maybe a penny can be a token, a marker, right?).. on the battlefield (i'm understanding so far, no prob)...

that's a copy of a creature token you control. I don't have any creature tokens yet, as this would be the first token I would
be creating.
And then they repeat on the card, damage and effects that say "destroy" don't destroy indestructible creatures... and that
seems redundant to me, why do they restate that I wonder?
They said at the beginning of the card text "Populate. Creatures you control are indestructible this turn." So that covers
indestructible. I don't know.
Could someone please help me by giving an explanation or examples of how to put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of
a creature token you control?

thanks a lot.

(wow ... same thing on the next card in my pack; Trostani's Judgment, 5W
Instant
Exile target creature, then populate.
(Put a token onto the battlefield that's a copy of a creature token you control.)

------------------------
thanks for any help, I could find it in the detailed rules, section 7.0.something I'd bet, but that document took me 2 days all day to get through as it was already, grins).

What I'm doing is documenting my cards as I buy them into an Excel spreadsheet database file. This way I can see at a glance what cards I do have and how many to assist in deckbuilding I figure. (any suggestions for better software tools or ways to do this accepted anytime, I'm here to learn).

Chuck

[DatAsh]

Text in brackets is reminder text. It tells you what abilities do. Also populate does nothing if you control no creature tokens.

[DatAsh]

For software I highly recommend Cockatrice. It's a database program that also lets you play magic over the internet or locally for free. It's a great way to get a feel for the game and cards without buying anything, and you can look up cards by name in a flash.

[Kenji]

As for what tokens are in terms of game rules, here you go:

110.5. Some effects put tokens onto the battlefield. A token is a marker used to represent any permanent
that isn’t represented by a card.

This is from the Comprehensive Rules document, which we've mentioned before is probably not a good idea to read for really new players. However, in this case, its definition of tokens is quite succinct and straightforward.

Anything small enough to put on the battlefield can be used as a token -- commonly, this means coins, post-it notes, unsleeved Magic cards (which is only really acceptable if you're playing your deck sleeved, something most people recommend you do), and so on. They even make actual token cards, which you may have noticed when opening new Magic booster packs. However, keep in mind that tokens are not considered cards within the rules of the game, even if you're using cards to represent them. Since tokens are usually creatures, the items you use to represent them should be something where it's easy to tell whether the token is tapped or untapped.

Here's another card that both creates a token and uses the populate keyword: Eyes in the Skies

So, with this card, you follow its instructions in order:

1. First, put a 1/1 white Bird creature token with flying onto the battlefield.
2. Then, populate. As explained before (and on the card itself), this means that you put a token onto the battlefield that is a copy of a creature token you control.

Since you had just placed a token onto the battlefield (the 1/1 Bird token), when you populate you can choose to get a copy of that same token. The end result will be that you have two 1/1 white Bird creature tokens with flying on the battlefield.

Though, again, as pointed out -- you can get a token that's a copy of any existing creature token you control. So, for example, if you have a 3/3 Centaur token (created by something such as Call of the Conclave or Vitu-Ghazi Guildmage), you can choose to get a token that's a copy of that instead.

As always, I've attempted to be as clear as possible with my answer here. Should you require further explanation, feel free to ask.

[cboyer1951]

So in putting down a 'anything marker to represent a creature' (another card, coin, post-it note, etc.) it is actually my first 'copy'. And that card instructs me to populate, to lay my first marker representing a copy of a creature card that I have on the battlefield already. Ok, got that.
Thanks guys...
And as to my getting your guys instructions? Actually I do best with both of your instructions, answers, you work well together in tandem.
DatAsh for succinct short and sweet, and Kenji for details and examples. Both are extremely, 'extremely' helpful to me, thank you, guys!!!

So as to DatAsh's instruction in this case, if this were the first card I were playing on the battlefield for instance, I could not populate in response to this card if I did not yet own a copy of another card down on my battlefield. Since I don't yet have a creature token. I have to own a creature token that I could then make a copy of, and a creature token is made in response to another card's direction to do so, of course. The only thing I would get from this card in the case that it was the first card I put down ... oh, never mind, if I didn't have any creatures down on the battlefield I couldn't place this card anyway. Ah-haaaahhh. So if I had one creature card down on the battlefield, I'd use this card just to make use of the 'indestructible' function of Rootborn Defenses.

So, I can't populate if I don't yet have a creature token.

And yes, Kenji, you are very understandable and clear. It's just there are always variables in conditions of useage and I tend to think of those thereby bringing up other questions. Thank you for saying you'd answer further questons on the matter. Releaves pressure on me not wanting to bother you guys too much.

DatAsh I'm all over Cockatrice, registering at the moment.
I'll test it out.
The other mtg games I've downloaded and am trying are a bit obtuse. MWSOnlinePlay for instance has the cards too darn'd small to see what they are, and just list a title, of course good enough if you've been playing for awhile and know the cards somewhat.
MagMa2 or Magic Machine, I can't for the life of me figure out the stages/steps yet, so no good yet.
Magic Workstation looks really good, but I can't figure out how to use the step/stages system correctly there either. shaking my head at myself
And Wagic just goes on it's own, even when not in demo mode.
So, I really don't know... therefore I am trying Cockatrice next.


I'm interested in a detail from the game rules posted there though.
(I will by the way, get card sleeves, I watched a championship match youtube today, and they were using the sleeves, as long as I can shuffle my deck ok then I'll go that way also for sure)....
But the details speak of a 'token card'. "They even make actual token cards, which you may have noticed when opening new Magic booster packs....Since tokens are usually creatures...."

I've now bought 2 Ravnica Booster Battle packs. And I've gotten creatures; Wurm (5/5), Human (1/1) and Goblin (1/1)... are these these tokens? I wondered because even though they have a 5/5 for instance on the wurm, there is no mana cost listed. So no way to know how to place it if there's no cost in mana to do so. Just wondering. Especially that there are no mana cost, not even G, or anything. (the wurm is green). Creature -- Wurm. (return to ravnica booster pack).

Thanks again,
Chuck

[Kenji]

In response to your last question: yes, those are token cards. They have no mana cost since they're never cast -- tokens are always created by the effects of spells/abilities.

Also, about Rootborn Defenses: one thing to note is that it doesn't target creatures at all. So, you could conceivably cast it when you control no creatures if you wanted, although it wouldn't accomplish much (unless you wanted to trigger a card with a "whenever you cast a spell" trigger condition).

The act of populating also doesn't target (you merely choose a creature token to copy when the spell/ability with populate resolves). This is a good thing, as it means your opponent can't prevent you from populating by merely destroying one of your tokens in response -- they would need to get rid of all the tokens, since you'll get a copy if there's even one token available at resolution.

[Arix]

The token cards are just there to help when an effect tells you to put a token onto the battlefield. They're not actual cards, and they don't go in your deck.

[cboyer1951]

Ok, Arix, on 'token cards are just thee to help when an effect tell you to put a token ......' So I have like 4 of them already, and I understand you guys, the Rhino for instance is a token for a 4/4 ability. So it's legal and acceptable to have my token cards in my gear box and use them as tokens.

And Kenji, I'm all confused now as to Rootborn Defenses now that you've added those other things to the explanation... laughs. It's also later in the day and I should probably look at all of the points in this thread tomorrow with a fresh mind.

Also, I've gotten Cocatrice and am putting together a deck, and will do so tomorrow and try it out. Thanks guys.
Chuck

[DatAsh]

One thing you need to know is that nothing targets if it doesn't say target. Something can be chosen and not targeted, and that gets around things like shroud. He's also saying that the thing you're copying is chosen upon resolution of the spell, not in casting.

[cboyer1951]

Ys, ok, now I've re-read all of the definitions. I understand. No targets unless specified. I think now I have to watch the effect while I play myself a couple of hands with these particular cards in the decks and see how well I understand the dynamics of play.