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Thread: New player; question on creature status as blocker

  1. #1
    cboyer1951 is offline Common
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    Default New player; question on creature status as blocker

    Brand spankin new, and I just chose 2 60 card decks for myself to play myself both sides.
    I want to learn the game now.

    The step sequence is pretty easy to follow, so I feel that I've got that part down.
    However I have a question right off.
    I know that Instants and Spells/Sorcery go into the Graveyard when they've been played.

    Now my question is as to creatures.
    Say on the previous turn I played a creature with 3/1 and it was used in the previous turn.
    Now at the beginning of this turn it's untapped.
    It sits on the battleground.

    1. If I attack again with it, it has to pay the stated mana, right? to do so?
    Or was that price paid in placing the card down onto the battlefield?

    2a. Also, I want to play a 2nd creature now, it's 3/1 but I get life equal to the attack point total.
    When I tap that card after entering it onto the Battlefield, the other/previous creature is untapped.
    Can I use that untapped creature in the next phase when I am attacked as a blocker?

    2b... Do I have to place the 1st creature which attacked on previous turn into Graveyard after it attacked? so it
    technically wouldn't even be here on subsequent turns?

    So generally my question is about creatures left on the battlefield after they've been used on the initial/first time
    entering the battlefield.

    3. When my creature blocks, can it also attack with it's attack points while blocking? or no, can only apply the
    attack power points when attacking?

    4. when I attack the 2nd time with same creature, does it have to pay any mana costs? or are there only a one time
    payment of mana cost, the one to get it down onto the battlefield the first time?

    Thank you any and all responses,
    I want to learn to play, but this is so complex really, for a first time player.
    I can't play online, which would be an ideal way to learn to play, as I have a internet service provider Hughes net
    which limits the amount of download per day, and both myself and my wife use the computer online for many other things
    each day, so I can't really use it up 3 days just to download the game.
    I have downloaded smaller, other mtg offline game programs to play on my pc.
    And I'll try that way (however you can't read what's on the cards very well, they're too small, especially for an older guy's eyes, grins).

    Thanks again,
    best regards,
    Chuck

  2. #2
    DatAsh's Avatar
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    1. If I attack again with it, it has to pay the stated mana, right? to do so?
    Or was that price paid in placing the card down onto the battlefield?
    Attacking costs nothing. The mana cost is for casting the spell.

    2a. Also, I want to play a 2nd creature now, it's 3/1 but I get life equal to the attack point total.
    When I tap that card after entering it onto the Battlefield, the other/previous creature is untapped.
    Can I use that untapped creature in the next phase when I am attacked as a blocker?
    I don't really understand this, creatures don't enter the battlefield tapped, but they can't attack or use activated abilities that require tapping until your next turn.

    2b... Do I have to place the 1st creature which attacked on previous turn into Graveyard after it attacked? so it
    technically wouldn't even be here on subsequent turns?
    Creatures stay on the battlefield unless they are destroyed, bounced, tucked, exiled or sacrificed.

    3. When my creature blocks, can it also attack with it's attack points while blocking? or no, can only apply the
    attack power points when attacking?
    When a creature blocks, both creatures involved in combat deal damage to each other. There is an attacker and a blocker, you can't attack while you block.

    4. when I attack the 2nd time with same creature, does it have to pay any mana costs? or are there only a one time
    payment of mana cost, the one to get it down onto the battlefield the first time?
    You never pay mana costs for attacking unless otherwise stated.


    I suggest you read the basic rules of the game before playing any further. They will be very informative, and you can find them on this forum.

  3. #3
    Arix's Avatar
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    1. If I attack again with it, it has to pay the stated mana, right? to do so?
    Or was that price paid in placing the card down onto the battlefield?
    The mana cost is only spent to cast the creature. Once that's done, you don't have to pay it again for any reason, unless a card specifically tells you to.

    2a. Also, I want to play a 2nd creature now, it's 3/1 but I get life equal to the attack point total.
    When I tap that card after entering it onto the Battlefield, the other/previous creature is untapped.
    Can I use that untapped creature in the next phase when I am attacked as a blocker?
    I...don't even understand what you're saying here. Mind wording it a bit better?

    2b... Do I have to place the 1st creature which attacked on previous turn into Graveyard after it attacked? so it
    technically wouldn't even be here on subsequent turns?
    Unless the creature dies somehow, it stays on the battlefield after it attacks.

    So generally my question is about creatures left on the battlefield after they've been used on the initial/first time
    entering the battlefield.
    Creatures stay on the battlefield until something actually removes them, either a removal spell or due to dying in combat with another creature. They don't get "used up".

    3. When my creature blocks, can it also attack with it's attack points while blocking? or no, can only apply the
    attack power points when attacking?
    When a creature blocks an attacker, both creatures deal damage equal to its power to the other. Say I attack with a 3/4 and you block with a 5/2. My creature deals 3 to your creature, yours deals 5 to mine. Since the 3/4 only has 4 toughness, the 5 is enough to destroy it, so it dies. And since your 5/2 only has 2 toughness, it also dies to the 3 damage dealt to it.

    4. when I attack the 2nd time with same creature, does it have to pay any mana costs? or are there only a one time
    payment of mana cost, the one to get it down onto the battlefield the first time?
    See above. The mana cost is only spent to cast the creature, that's it.
    Fluttershy is best pony.

  4. #4
    DatAsh's Avatar
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    Also welcome to the game, I hope you get into it and enjoy yourself. I've been addicted to the cardboard crack for about 5 years now.

  5. #5
    cboyer1951 is offline Common
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    1. If I attack again with it, it has to pay the stated mana, right? to do so?
    Or was that price paid in placing the card down onto the battlefield?
    Attacking costs nothing. The mana cost is for casting the spell.
    Quote Originally Posted by DatAsh View Post
    Attacking costs nothing. The mana cost is for casting the spell.

    >>Thanks. Gotcha. And as Arix stated, I only pay mana to place the creature card down onto the Battlefield. No further mana
    cvosts are involved. And the creature remains on the Battlefield until taken out by battle or a Sorcery or Instant, etc.
    I'm clear on this now.


    2a. Also, I want to play a 2nd creature now, it's 3/1 but I get life equal to the attack point total.
    When I tap that card after entering it onto the Battlefield, the other/previous creature is untapped.
    Can I use that untapped creature in the next phase when I am attacked as a blocker?

    I don't really understand this, creatures don't enter the battlefield tapped, but they can't attack or use activated abilities that require tapping until your next turn.

    >>So, to clearify. The question is about the 1st creaure. Once the 2nd creature is entered onto the Battlefield (mana paid, 3rd turn now).. The question is when I am attacked after this 2nd turn, can I use both the 1st and 2nd creature in blocking. I think the answer is that if I have not used it to attack (therefore it would be tapped) then it can block. But this is confusing as the attacker declares which of my 2 creatures in the Battlefield it is attacking and that creature (2nd creature in this case has been delared attacked) and if there are left over attack strength points they fall to the wayside in removing tht 2nd creature from the battlefield. I was asking if the attacker had declared on the 2nd creature could I block with my previous 1st creature on the battlefield, but I see in reading the rules that the extra points the attacker has will not need to be blocked if my 2nd creature is defeated and removed from the Battlefield.

    Also all of this is complicated by the question as to how exactly battle proceeds. (addressed in further question).


    2b... Do I have to place the 1st creature which attacked on previous turn into Graveyard after it attacked? so it
    technically wouldn't even be here on subsequent turns?

    Creatures stay on the battlefield unless they are destroyed, bounced, tucked, exiled or sacrificed.

    >>Thanks, guys, this is clear to me now.



    3. When my creature blocks, can it also attack with it's attack points while blocking? or no, can only apply the
    attack power points when attacking?

    When a creature blocks, both creatures involved in combat deal damage to each other. There is an attacker and a blocker, you can't attack while you block.

    >>thank you, this is a complicated question/answer. Your answer is helpful. And Arix chimes in with more details which are very helpful to me.

    Arix: When a creature blocks an attacker, both creatures deal damage equal to its power to the other. Say I attack with a 3/4 and you block with a 5/2. My creature deals 3 to your creature, yours deals 5 to mine. Since the 3/4 only has 4 toughness, the 5 is enough to destroy it, so it dies. And since your 5/2 only has 2 toughness, it also dies to the 3 damage dealt to it.

    >>This is what was confusing to me. There is actually a battle that goes on when an attacker attacks. The attacker has to take on damage from the target creature is what this is telling me. So even though in this scenario theh attacker defeats the target, the target having enough strength points to deplete the attackers defense points, both attacker and target cards are removed to the respective graveyards then.

    But this is saying that I can attack while I block. Of course I attacked if the other card in attacking me had less defense points than my attack points therefore removing the attacker card to the graveyard. Hmmm.



    You never pay mana costs for attacking unless otherwise stated.
    >>Gotcha now on this point, thank you guys. I only pay mana to enter the Battlefield then. (casting the creature).



    I suggest you read the basic rules of the game before playing any further. They will be very informative, and you can find them on this forum.
    >>Thank you too for this suggestion. I am in the process of reading the rules. I'm reading the FAQ from the MTG site, and "Magic: The Gathering Comprehensive Rules." and "Magic the Gathering Basic Rulebook". I think I am getting swallowed up in the rulebooks is why I had to ask the questions. I will look for the rule book on this web site though, thanks.

    Guys, thank you. I am grateful that you have taking the time to read through a newbie's questions and providing your answers.
    They help. I think that I am going to really get into this game, it's addicted me already right from the start. The artwork on the cards is so intriguing, and beautiful. I was shocked when I cracked open the first pack of cards and felt them, they are smaller and a lot thinner than my baseball cards. grins. They are fun to shuffle though for sure. (hopefully I'll be able to help a newcomer's questions in the future).

    The most important answers that you two have given me are highly appreciated.

    1. I only pay mana cost on entering the Battlefield, I don't have to pay on successive attacks or blocking, on successive turns.
    (unless of course otherwise stated on card text).

    2. The attack/defend stages are indeed both attack and defend. You 'do' attack the attacker if your strength points are higher than the attackers defense points.

    Chuck

  6. #6
    Arix's Avatar
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    But this is confusing as the attacker declares which of my 2 creatures in the Battlefield it is attacking and that creature (2nd creature in this case has been delared attacked)
    Okay, here's where most of your confusion comes from.

    In Magic, you never attack creatures directly. When a creature attacks, it only ever attacks your opponent (or one of their planeswalkers, if you want it to). Then your opponent decides whether or not they want to block it with their creatures. If they don't block it, they take the damage. If they block it with a creature, then the attacking creature and the blocking creature deal damage to each other (in the way I described above with the 3/4 and the 5/2).
    Fluttershy is best pony.

  7. #7
    DatAsh's Avatar
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    You really shouldn't even try to read the comp. rules if you're a new player, it'll only confuse you.

    Also creatures dealing damage to each other is not attacking. Attacking is the action of tapping your creature (unless it has vigilance) during the declare attackers step to have them deal damage to your opponent. Then your opponent can block with their creatures, and the creatures deal damage to each other. That doesn't mean they attack each other.

  8. #8
    cboyer1951 is offline Common
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    Quote Originally Posted by Arix View Post
    Okay, here's where most of your confusion comes from.

    In Magic, you never attack creatures directly. When a creature attacks, it only ever attacks your opponent (or one of their planeswalkers, if you want it to). Then your opponent decides whether or not they want to block it with their creatures. If they don't block it, they take the damage. If they block it with a creature, then the attacking creature and the blocking creature deal damage to each other (in the way I described above with the 3/4 and the 5/2).
    Thanks, Arix; yes, I've got that now. And yes, that was my problem, even today when I played myself in two games, the first one I was attacking my opponents' creatures, not the player. Warning bell!!!! Wrong!! But yes, I now get this point. And a lot more is clear to me now. thanks, thanks.

  9. #9
    cboyer1951 is offline Common
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    Yeah, DatAsh, 'that's' the point of what i was doing wrong completely.
    So, yeah, I 'did' in fact confuse the heck out of myself in reading the detailed rules.
    I read 3 simple step sequence rules today, from different sources. I watched 3 different youtube videos on the step stages and how cards played against each other in the combat steps.
    But what really taught me was the key step; my actually playing games.
    So I played myself for two games.
    I was fair for either side.
    The first game ended 1/2 way through when I realized that I was attacking the creature down on the Battlefield of the opponent.
    I wondered if I could attack a tapped creature. So I googled' it and found the answer, 'you are attacking the PLAYER/opponent, not the creatures.'!!!!
    And that's how it hit home to me. For me, my learning style is to learn while doing, hands' on, theory and dry instructions just confuse me.

    So thanks you guys for your responses and help. Helped a lot.
    Now in the two games that I played today, I have a question please?

    Here's the spread of my decks;


    =============================
    Black/Red
    ------------------
    24 Lands
    23 Creatures
    13 Sorcery/Instant/Enchantments
    ---------
    60 card deck
    =============================
    14 Black Land
    16 Black Creature
    7 Black Sorcery/Instant/Enchantment

    10 Red Land
    7 Red Creature
    6 Red Sorcery/Instant/Enchantment
    ============================

    Blue/White
    ---------------
    23 Lands
    25 Creatures
    12 Sorcery/Instant/Enchantments
    ----------
    60 card deck
    ============================
    8 Blue Land
    10 Blue Creature
    6 Blue Sorcery/Instant/Enchantment

    15 White Land
    15 White Creature
    6 White Sorcery/Instant/Enchantment
    ============================

    Black/Red was one side
    and the other side was
    Blue/White

    My question is how both of those games played out in their ummmmm, 'style' of play? I don't know what we call that in the game terminoly,
    the 'pace' of each game? They were similar in that in each of the 2 games one side had a very difficult time in getting any land cards in the game play.
    First game it was Black/Red had a hard time getting any lands, by the 5th turn I had about 3. But the opponent, Blue/White had about 7 lands by then.

    And in the 2nd game the odds reversed; by the 5th hand Blue/White had 2 lands, and Black/Red had 5.
    So, in the count of types of cards that I created the decks with, can you guys give me any hints as to why that is?
    Is it obvious? Or is this just the luck of the shuffle or draw? Do lots of games go just like this?
    It makes me want to reduce the number of creatures in the deck and increase the lands. But I read everywhere that
    24 lands is about usual. So? .... hmmm.

    Also is that correct or usual in what I did of shorting one color and increasing the other color in a deck of 2 colors? making one stronger and more obviously to get more lands it having more creatures to start with whom will need those lands.????

    It 'is' fun, and I think I'm really going to enjoy this game a LOT!!! I love it.
    Hooked right from the start.
    I think in time I will use a download manager and download the MTGO (online game) in pieces and then begin playing. I see that I'll have to purchase cards and decks there too, separate from the physical cards and decks. I love the physcal cards, so I'll always continue buying those
    So far I bought a Magic The Gathering Deck Builder (2013 core) and a Ravnica Booster Battle Pack (4 booster packs for $10, not bad?). With the Deck Builder I didn't really feel like I had enough cards to create two different meaningful decks. With the Battle Pack, 60 extra/additional cards it really 'felt' a lot better, more roomy, gave me lots more room to make a deck. (I can only guess at how that much more cards each month will add to this elation and good feeling, eh? ) (I can afford about $100.00 per month, and that's it).

    So, any advice on how to better the odds at getting lands and the balance, etc? or is the the point of my just playing game after game and learning my own style?

    Thanks

    Chuck

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    cboyer1951 is offline Common
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    Anxious, ...
    I just swapped 5 creature cards Red for 5 red lands, and 2 black creatures for 2 black lands.
    And swapped 5 white creature cards for 5 white lands, and 2 blue creatue cards for 2 blue land.
    So I'm playing my 3rd game, tonight trying this out and will play a couple more tomorrow.

    thanks again
    I wish you well
    Chuck
    by the way, stupid question or not, I'm askin...
    My creatures just stay there on the Battlefield after each attack and turn play, right? And they accumulate there over a few turns,
    and I either leave them untapped to be used as blockers or tap and attack with them, ..... right?

  11. #11
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    My creatures just stay there on the Battlefield after each attack and turn play, right? And they accumulate there over a few turns,
    and I either leave them untapped to be used as blockers or tap and attack with them, ..... right?
    Right. Creatures don't leave the battlefield without a reason. For a few examples:

    - Ball Lightning is sacrificed at the end step of the turn you cast it.
    - Go for the Throat destroys a nonartifact creature.
    - Unsummon returns a creature to its owner's hand.
    - Lightning Bolt deals 3 damage to target creature or player. If that 3 damage is equal to or greater than the selected creature's toughness, then that creature is destroyed and sent to the graveyard as a result of having lethal damage marked on it.
    - Dismember gives -5/-5 to a creature until end of turn. If this is enough to reduce a creature's toughness to 0, that creature is sent to the graveyard as a result (Creatures can survive on the battlefield just fine with 0 power -- see Wall of Omens and various other Wall creatures).

    I hope this wasn't too confusing; I'm trying to be as clear as I can, so please bear with me!

    Oh, and a couple other things to keep in mind:

    Normally, creatures will tap when declared as attackers. However, creatures with the vigilance ability (Serra Angel is a classic example) do not tap when they attack.

    Also, remember that although you can only block with untapped creatures, creatures do not become tapped when they block. A lot of newer players have this misconception (don't worry, that was me at one point as well).

  12. #12
    cboyer1951 is offline Common
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    Thanks, Kenji,

    yeah, I get it, I do understand what you're illustrating by those card examples. You said it straight away very clearly anyway;

    "Creatures don't leave the battlefield without a reason."

    The examples do explain situations where the creature left on the battlefield is affected by the text of the subsequent cards you listed, 'however' (grins), being a little bit newer than I am (3 days old now, laughs, and 4 games against myself under my belt)... however a player newer to the game than I am now 'could' have construed your explanations also to just apply to the combat stage of a turn. And then at the end of the turn all creatures on the battlefield, every card except land are cleared by placing them into the graveyard. Shrugs, laughs, just saying, grins. 2 days ago I would have taken it that way, I was so confused. But yes, I understand it now as you've stated and then used the examples. Also one direction in the rules that led me to believe that the creatures remained on the board is the instruction for Sorcery, Instants, tht they go to the graveyard after played. That the rules (the simple rules with illustrations on the folded poster in the Booster Battle Pack and the Deck Builder's Toolkit tht I bought) say.

    Thanks you guys,

    Well, I played out 2 games with the 24 lands extended to 29 lands and it went horribly... grins. There were too many lands right away on one side, and on the other side (also switched 5 instant,creatures for lands) there were no very few lands again within the first 5 moves. Weird this plays out this way. So I'm returning back to the suggested 24 lands for this reason. I think that I might learn quicker if I just limit myself also to just one color. Going to play 3 or 4 hands today with that logic My wife is saying she'll play me later, could months, here at home after I get the rules down better and can teach her quickly/easily. So looks like I'll have a partner in a couple months, grins. (also next month I'll join online.)

    Do you guys suggest for online play MTG, (wizards of the coast) version or Magic-League free version.??
    I understand that I'll be using mirc and other programs with the Magic-League version (I've already downloaded 3 v

  13. #13
    Kenji's Avatar
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    Generally, Magic: the Gathering Online is pretty good, being the official program used by Wizards of the Coast. It's literally a way to own cards digitally, and then build decks and play with them against real people online. Of course, do keep in mind that it costs money to do, and potentially a lot of it. Though, if you're simply trying to learn the game, the $10 activation fee will probably be all you need to spend for a while.

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    cboyer1951 is offline Common
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    Thanks, Kenji, yeah for trhe first 4 months or so I'm just learning how to play, so it will be fine the online $10.00 and beginner package of cards (I looked at it initially). And later I will put about $10-25 in it per month.
    thanks

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    cboyer1951 is offline Common
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    Is this Kenji referred to in this article you, Kenji? Just wondering, if so then I probably should be writing everything you
    say down in gold ink. grins warmly. (take this all in fun and jest, not as a jibe or joke, and definately not as kissarse if it 'is' you, k? )
    If you take anything away from this comment, just this; I really appreciate your replies, they are to the point and with examples and very helpful.
    ===============================================

    One of the comments from this url thread:
    What You May Have Missed With the New Trigger Rules by Melissa DeTora - Magic the Gathering TCG Article
    -------------------------------------
    What You May Have Missed With the New Trigger Rules
    Feature Article from Melissa DeTora
    Melissa DeTora
    10/26/2012 10:52:00 AM
    ------------------------------------------------------
    Sanjay Roopnah M.D. at Self Employed (Business)
    There is a reason why Kenji's Tsumura is now in the Hall of Fame and he is so well liked.. Real pros will win based on their play skill & not bec his opponent missed a trigger.
    Reply Like Follow Post October 27, 2012 at 11:35pm

  16. #16
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    Default Re: New player; question on creature status as blocker

    Nope, that's a different Kenji. My online handle is actually my middle name, rather than my first.

 

 




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